Gast

Hallo allerseits!

Da ich mich ein bisschen mit Elektronik etc. auskenne, würde ich gern einmal versuchen, mir ein Iontophoresegerät selbst zu bauen.

Hat irgendjemand Erfahrung damit? Weiss irgendjemand die erforderlichen Strom- und Spannungswerte? Habe bisher nur als Angabe für den Strom 15-18 mA gefunden.

Oder hat gar jemand einen Schaltplan? Oder es schon selbst ausprobiert?

Ich wäre über jede Antwort dankbar!

Viele Grüße,

Steinchen

30.09.2003 18:27 • 12.05.2011 #1


23 Antworten ↓


afri


ACHTUNG NICHT NACHMACHEN!! KEINE HAFTUNG!!!

also einfach ein regelbares Netzteil kaufen (0-40V), Elektroden selber basteln, fertig!
musst dir nur noch was einfallen lassen wie du ein/ausschalten kannst und wie du an den regler rankommst...
eigentlich eine frechheit wieviel aufschlag diese dinger kosten nur weil man sie im "gesundheitsladen" kauft...

17.10.2003 00:33 • #2


Gast


naja, aber braucht man nicht noch einen strombegrenzer oder so was??

17.10.2003 16:54 • #3


afri


hmm..
auf den nötigen strom kommt man doch indem man langsam mit der spannung hochgeht bis man den gewünschten strom hat.

aber wenn man sich nicht gerade das allerbilligtse netzteil besorgt kann man da dann auch einen max. strom einstellen..

19.10.2003 21:10 • #4


an_ant


Hallo German friends. I'm from Finland and would like to show you the selfmade iontophoresis system for hands I built.
I hope you don't mind me writing in English, you would not understand my german
This is the only thread about this issue I found on Internet but if you have links to other similar I would appreciate it.
I tested it last night for the first time and I think it worked like it should. I will continue using it for now on and can tell you how it works after one or two weeks.
I think I can't upload picture here but if you want to see it you can email me.
Before reading further remember that this is low voltage system and is not connected to the mains 230V. This is why my system is 100% safe against electric shock!
Here is short description about the system and components.
I used battery packs from my RC hobby. 16 cells total (9nicd and 7 nimh) which gives about 19-21,5V. I don't know for sure but I'll try to use second meter to read the voltage too.
I had a multimeter connected in series for measuring the current. It was not very accurate but the current was about 0.01A (~10mA). The feeling was right at the edge of unconfortable but I was able to keep my hands in there full 30min without too much trouble. To get accurate reading I'll get new multimeter on Tuesday. They only cost about 10-30 euros.
I searched pictures from google to illustrate what components were used. I hope it makes things clear. You can ask and I'll hapily answer.
The steel electrodes were made from bookends. I removed the paint with acetone and sandpaper from both sides.

I found some bowls that was perfect fit for the steel plates.

The multimeter was used for measuring the current.

I had non slip pads between the steel plates and my hands

Wires were connected to the plates with these.

You can use normal batteries for power. Remember that they are 1.5V when nicd and nimh are about 1.25-1.35V (I measured that). You'll need about 12-13 normal AA batteries to get 20V.

You need 2 or 3 battery holders.

Of course you need also wire and it should be good silicone wire and about 2m long each + and -.
This is very simple to make if you know something about electronics and can do solder joints (not necessary).
This system can be built for less than 50 euros! I was bidding on a idromed 4 at ebay and I'm glad I did not get it It was over 300 euros!
Ask, I'll answer happily. And I hope you can send me email thru this page. I'll change my settings if you can't. I might need english instuctions for that...
Thanks.

26.03.2005 17:58 • #5


an_ant


I would like to add that it's easy to change the current by using different number of cells. I can change to 14 or 18 cells if I want but I think 16 is right. It gives right feeling. As the treatment only uses 10-20mA normal batteries will last about 120 hours or 240 treatments!
I want to remind that not all people can use this kind of treatment.
Zitat:
Wann dürfen Sie idromed® nicht benutzen?

Bei folgenden Kontraindikationen sollte idromed® 4 nicht oder nur nach Absprache mit dem behandelnden Arzt verwendet werden:

Herzrhythmusstörungen
Elektronisch gesteuerte Implantate (Herzschrittmacher)
Metallhaltige Intrauterin-Implantate (Spirale)
Schwangerschaft
Große Hautdefekte
Unempfindlichkeit gegenüber Schmerzreizen
Metallimplantate im Bereich des Stromflusses

Danke

26.03.2005 19:38 • #6


an_ant


Hallo,
I used it again last night and I measured the voltage. It was 21.3V and it is exactly the same as resting voltage. You can get almost exactly the same voltage by using 14 AA or AAA alkaline batteries (21,8V). 21.8V might be too unconfortable so it's better start with 13 cells (20.3V).
After I removed my hands from there it gives very nice warm feeling to them
Danke.

27.03.2005 11:00 • #7


an_ant


Hi again.
As I told before I got new multimeter today and I'm glad I did.
I was surpriced that I only had 10-11mA earlier. So I put one 9 cell battery pack more so there was 25 cells total (33V). Then I got 18mA and little bit stronger feeling
Few thing I have noticed that the book-end steel plates rust very rapidly with more current. The water turned little yellow. I think it's better find good stainless steel. I might continue with these plates and use sandpaper to remove the rust.
By now I have not noticed any defference in sweating but I'm confident that with 18mA I will get better
Is anyone interested in building this?
Thanks.

29.03.2005 23:18 • #8


an_ant


Today was the first day I felt less sweating. Especially some fingers are almost completely dry but my palms that are the sweatiest part still sweats almost as much as earlier. I think I now raise my fingers from the water to get even results.
So 4 days with 10mA and 3 days with 15-18mA starts giving results.
I have noticed that first the current is 15mA but it raises to 18-19mA to the end. I think it might be the rust in the water which makes it more conductive. Or maybe my arm muscles are more tense and affect my body resistance. I have noticed that relaxing muscles in arms and shoulder decreases the current.

Viele Grüße

01.04.2005 21:08 • #9


an_ant


Hallo,
This is working very well! I've been sitting in front of my computer now for an hour and normally my hands would be very wet from the sweat. Now they are so dry I could shake hands with anyone right now I don't use it every day anymore because I don't have to! I recommend this iontophoresis self building to everyone. Only side effect I've noticed is that there is little spots of darker pigment in my right thumb but it's hardly noticeable.
This cost about 20 euros for me and I'm cured

Viele Grüße

04.04.2005 10:39 • #10


an_ant


Hallo,
I translated my earlier post with de.altavista.com/babelfish/
Is it understandable?
Dieses arbeitet sehr gut! Ich habe vor meinem Computer jetzt eine Stunde lang gesessen und normalerweise würden meine Hände vom Schweiß sehr naß sein. Jetzt sind sie, also trocken könnte ich Hände mit jedermann rütteln, im Augenblick, das ich es nicht jeden Tag mehr verwende, weil ich nicht muß! Ich empfehle dieser iontophoresis Selbst, der zu jeder errichtet. Nur Nebenwirkung, die ich beachtet habe, ist, daß es kleine Punkte des dunkleren Pigments in meinem rechten Daumen gibt, aber er kaum wahrnehmbar ist.
Diese Kosten ungefähr 20 Euro für mich und mich werden kuriert

04.04.2005 16:45 • #11


an_ant


Hallo, habe ich dieses nur einmal wöchentlich verwendet und es ist genug zum Halten meiner Hände trocken. Es gibt keine Nebenwirkungen. Kein dunkleres Pigment mehr. Bildet jemand oder verwendet dieses jetzt?

Hi,
I have used this only once a week and it is enough to keep my hands dry. There is no side effects. No darker pigment anymore.
Is someone making or using this now?
1100 reads after my post

19.04.2005 17:36 • #12


steinchen


hello an_ant!

all you wrote sounds very interesting. but how did you know the exact values for current and voltage? i think for example that a voltage of more than 20 volts is rather high, maybe too high?

are you interested in email-contact for discussing special technical questions? i would be really glad if you mail me!!

my mail address is

i hope to hear from you!

many greetings,
steinchen (that means "little stone" and is my name in all the hyperhidrose-forums)

ps.: the translation with babelfish is a little bit strange... obviously there is still a lot of work for the programmers who work on translation programs...

02.05.2005 11:46 • #13


an_ant


hallo steinchen,
I have tried many different voltages and found these to be correct.
Now when I have used this only once every week I'm little bit more sensitive to the current and only use 23 nicd cells. I measured the voltage with multimeter and it is 29,7V. You can get same voltage with 19 alkaline batteries. With that voltage I measured 12-15mAh during the 30min treatment. It is easy to get both voltage and current with same multimeter because the current is so small it does not lower the voltage during the treatment. (If the current is large the resistance of the batteries will drop the voltage little bit and also current drops. U=RI) So I measure the voltage before putting my hands in water and then connect the multimeter in series to the circuit. It's nice to know the current during the treatment because it changes a bit.
I suggest not to use many batteries when you try this first time. It feels uncomfortable and it is better to start with about 10mA. After few treatments you will get used to it and don't feel anything. It is then time to raise the current so the treatment is more effective.
When you build this kind of device the most important thing is to make sure it is easy to change the number of cells. It takes little testing to find the right amount.
I will send you email and include a picture of the system. I'll be happy to help.
Danke.

02.05.2005 12:44 • #14


steinchen


hallo!

thanks a lot for the mail with the photo! maybe you are right that writing in the forum is better because everyone can learn then.

at the moment i dont have technical questions but about your hyperhidrose treatment before you used your construction:

did you ever try other things like e.g. aluminiumchlorid-hexahydrat or antihydral?
how bad was your sweating and how is it now?
what is about this darker pigments? is it totally gone or did it only not increase? or was it something that had nothing to do with iontophoresis? was it like freckles or a whole area darker than usual?
do you know any other side-effects caused by currency that goes through the body all few days? i mean, you posted that list of side-effects, but are there other ones?

viele grüße

02.05.2005 22:15 • #15


an_ant


Hi,
This is very first time I tried to fix the problem. I thought that surgery was the only option and it is very expensive etc. Then a while ago I got a boost and started to search the internet again and trying to find a cure. Years ago I tried to find these things I didn't find antihydral or iontophoresis.
I don't like the idea of antihydral which chemically changes the skin or something like that. Strangely I felt iontophoresis was my thing. I read all the material I found in the web and I found out that 12mA is good and one should use as much current as he can stand without too much trouble. Also dr.K Hönle and i2m-labs idrostar pages were helpful.
First I tried to buy idromed from ebay and once the Windows Explorer shut down when I was winning one.
I realized that I have those book-ends and enough batteries so why not build one my self.

Don't worry about those darker pigments they are gone. Skin in growing and outer layer peels of naturally. It was really no big deal and no one else didn't even notice it. Right now I use it every Thursday and next few days I have little itching on the right hand but I only scratch it a little bit. Also hardly worth of mentioning but I'm being honest here.

The treatment has made great improvement. I'm 22 years old and I've been a little shy because of this. Not much dating etc. because of this.
Last weekend I was partying with friends and I felt really great. I met allot of people and didn't have to worry about shaking hands Met many nice Mädchen and I can tell you it makes a huge difference in first impression if your hands are sweaty. Of course you know that. Anyone suffering from hyperhidrosis knows that.
Maybe little too strong impression but I feel I have started new era in my life.

02.05.2005 22:50 • #16


poldie


hi.....

i want to build such a thing for my gilrfriend... could you send a picture what it locks like when it is ready??
Where do you measure the voltage and the ampere in the water or at the wire??


thanks a lot


Poldie

03.05.2005 13:15 • #17


poldie


so..... das gerät ist gebaut und wird mit 12 X aaa zellen betrieben was zu 18 v führt. die anwendung ist bisher 2 mal erfolgt und schon leichte besserung eingetreten. hoffe ich kann in wenigen tagen melden das es besser ist.

könnte jemand der ein gekauftes gerät besitzt grosse bilder der schwäme die man unter den achseln benutzt online stellen? will mir dafür etwas einfallen lassen oder welche kaufen.... wichtig wäre zu sehen wie der strom in die schwämme geht- wie er verteilt wird..... und falls ein nachbau unmöglich ist welche anschlüsse so ein teil zum gerät hat...

Danke


Poldie

06.05.2005 12:25 • #18


steinchen


hello you two (and everyone who reads this),

how do you use the apparatus? which hand is connected with plus and which one with minus? is it always the same or do you change?
do you touch the metal directly with your hands or do you have something lying on the electrodes?

and i heard that the iontophoresis sets one can buy use pulsing dc. do you know anything about that and do you know whether it is important?

do you know the real reason why the sets you can buy are so extremely expensive if they really only consist of a transformer and electrodes? i mean, a good laboratory power supply costs 100 euros!??

thanks for the answers,
steinchen

auf deutsch:

hallo ihr zwei (und alle die mitlesen),

wie benutzt ihr das gerät? welche hand verbindet ihr mit plus und welche mit minus? immer dieselbe oder wechselt ihr die hände ab?
berührt ihr die metallelektrode direkt mit der hand oder legt ihr was dazwischen?

und ich habe gehört, dass die iontophoresegeräte, die man kaufen kann, mit pulsierendem gleichstrom arbeiten. ist das irgendwie ein wichtiger unterschied?

wisst ihr den wahren grund, warum diese geräte so teuer sind? sie enthalten doch praktisch nur einen trafo und elektroden. ein gutes labornetzgerät kostet 100 euro. warum also?

10.05.2005 19:00 • #19


an_ant


Hallo,
The + pole gives slightly better effect and changing the + and - during the treatment once or just changing it every time you use it might give even results. I don't mind that left hand is not as dry as right but I tried to change polarity after 15min and continued another 15 min and I liked it.
If you read my first post you'll see that I have non slip pads between hands and electrodes.

from
Zitat:
The unit is available with DC or with AC. Especially the unit with AC is available for very sensitive patients, children etc., because the therapy current is not felt.
With this unit it is also possible to take out the hands/feet during treatment.



I think the high price is mainly because of low manufacturing number. It is also very important to be safe enough because you are connected to 230V and if something goes wrong
They are constant current supplies so it includes voltage changing circuit which is little complex.

10.05.2005 19:27 • #20




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